Formula Race Car Club of America

Ok this may be premature as I don't have a 2 litre yet, however I'm

looking at one this weekend! ( not giving up running with the pro avanti's however )

racing with those guys is just to much fun.

but how do you guys feel as most of you are either new to the class or

new to formula cars altogether and as it's looking right now that your

going to have a decent size field about running a spec tire

One of my big problems as a CLUB racer who's just out to have a bit of fun

is that it's hard for me to justify buying new tires every time I hit the track

it just seems crazy to me!

having run the 1600 now for 14 years or so with spec tires the benefits for us club racers

to me is a no brainer 

#1 is of course cost

# 2 is it creates a more even playing field between old & new cars

# 3 it makes for great close racing! just watch the club classes in the 1600"s

Now I personally would like to run a pretty hard tire that would last a good part of the season

however if you think thats to much one that is at least good for 5 races or so

What do you think? 

Wise up continentals. With y'all on sticky tires and Andy on spec hards he will stay right where he belongs!

Andy - which tire do you suggest?

I wouldn't mind seeing a spec tire to keep cost down and keep things even.  Would help attract others to the class.  I am desperately trying to get some some friends to cross over from bikes like me and thats a great selling point.

94 van diemen purchased so add another  continental to

the mix. If they fit I'm going to use the same american racing tires

I ran on the 1600 and see how it go's and how long they last on

the continental vs the 1600

It's really going to be a long winter now!

If we have enough guys in a class and want to start (actually reinstitute) the spec 2000 class we will do it.  but we need cars to do it.  We wouldn't outlaw the regular SCCA divison but would do a second class in a class.

Nice Andy!  Did you get the red Argo car?  

frccallc at October 18, 2010 at 12:12 PM

If we have enough guys in a class and want to start (actually reinstitute) the spec 2000 class we will do it.  but we need cars to do it.  We wouldn't outlaw the regular SCCA divison but would do a second class in a class.

how many would something like that take?

Jason; The rules book states 4 ars are required to make a class, signed up before the first race of the season. There is also a regulation that provides a class of 10 (15?) cars to have their own Race; mixed practice but non-mixed race.

Hey Jason yes it is the red Argo car, looks in great shape and well

maintained so doesn't look like I need to do much with it 

over the winter which I like the sound of.

Like I said I'm going to put on the spec tires we ran on the 1600

I just don't see the point in spending $900 for a set of soft rubber

thats only good for one maybe two weekend for the sake of

a plastic trophy, if we can get more guys on board with that great1

but thats what I'm doing regardless I'm an old man just having

fun!!!!

Andrew graham at October 18, 2010 at 6:42 PM

Hey Jason yes it is the red Argo car, looks in great shape and well

maintained so doesn't look like I need to do much with it 

over the winter which I like the sound of.

Like I said I'm going to put on the spec tires we ran on the 1600

I just don't see the point in spending $900 for a set of soft rubber

thats only good for one maybe two weekend for the sake of

a plastic trophy, if we can get more guys on board with that great1

but thats what I'm doing regardless I'm an old man just having

fun!!!!

Andy - Congrats on the new car.   Not sure if you'll be able to run FF rubber on an FC.  You MAY be able to fit FF tires on 6" Front FC Rims.  Doubt you'll be able to get a good seat on the 8" rear rims.   To be safe, you may want to consult with a tire mfg or prep shop for advise.

Just like in FF, there are harder compound FC tires availaible.  I don't have my notes any more, but we liked the Hardest Avon's (I think 3 componds were avail).  We got them used from John Berget for about $250 for the set.  Post run-offs John may have a good selection. 

Also, please shoot me you ph#.  I need to get some work done. May have to remove, alter and reinstall the fireplace mantle.  

I had a very long conversation with my Son Chris about this tread and hope he chirps in.

If i say F/F's were designed to run on skinny tires and F/C's were designed to run on wider tires that will open up to/too many comments and will stray from Andy's original question.

Chris pointed out F/C's will easily "overdrive' Hard Spec Tires and create situations the car will not be ablle to address.

Next, "if you can afford to buy a winged car, why would you worry about the expense of any tire".

Having said that, Abrose is correct. John Berget sells F/C and F/A scrubs for about $60.00 a piece and I've run his tires for 10 years. In a hard season running for a Championship i bought a 2nd set of rears making my expense an additional $120.00

Andy, i'm concerned if your looking to bring more F/C's to FRCCA spec tires is not a good idea, "unless you have a Spec Tyre F/C class" and divide total entries/into seperate classs's

.and defeat the intent.

Run What Ya Brung and can afford to buy.

We also have been running tires purchased used and are planning our replacement after every 2nd race weekend.  Even then I'm not sure we are seeing a significant drop off in tire performance.  This works out to about $60.00 per race or $120.00 per race weekend.  Next year with the new (to us) car (Mygale F/C) and Ryan building his skills up a bit we will hopefully be running faster.  Even then I will be surprised if we can't get 2 weekends per set of used.

Great to hear about the new car by the way.  2011 looks promising for the continental gang.

Sid Smith

To the F/C "gang"  I have found too much difference in used race rubber plus racing on used tires does not have the same image as racing on new tires, regardless of compound. Another  huge beneifit is that all the drivers are on the same level playing field, at least about the tires. Another cost and grief is the consatnt mounting, balancing time and cost. Damage just one rim and think about the time lost and cost. Finally, think about why the original driver got rid of those tires (?)

I paid less for the new 95 continental than I would of for the same year 1600

the way the market is right now

but that wasn't my point my point was way make CLUB racing any more expensive than it has to be if you can get decent grip from a 

hardish spec tire that lasts 4 5 even 6 weekends why not do it ! 

If I buy a used set of tires that have had 3 heat cycles and thats all they were good for, at least according to the guy that just got rid of them! who's to say I'm getting any more grip out of them than I would a harder spec ? I don't  know, all I said was that I'm going to try it., if it doesn't work I'll try something else! however If I beat everyone on my spec tire just watch how fast they go on the other cars ( it must be the tires )!!!!!!!!!!!    

AJ, The original Driver got rid of them [and John  Berget got them]  because the "driver didn't pay for them", the sponsor did and they are/were scrubs.

I'm confused by your comment "racing on used does not have the same "image" as racing on new tires".

F/C's and F2000's are a very different Animals. As Chris pointed out "why buy an F/C and stick tires on it that will never let the driver be able to take advantage of the cars capibility"

Andy, Chris gave away his 95 Van Dieman because of obama and a baby. My point: i could buy back the F/A i sold 15 months ago for 1/2 of what i sold it for if i had the cash. Any one with cash can buy an F/A for the cost of an F/F.

If your trying to build an F/C field why reqiure the partipants to drive on tires that won't let them experience the advantage of the car. Andy with your skill and in your F/F you would indeed chase down F/C's on spec's.

I'm only trying to express, Don't Require All F/C and F/2000's to run on a spec tires. Let the Drivers deside which class [spec/ non spec] that they want to run in "If FRCCA wants to attract competitors"

Fred sorry I have probably been using the word spec to much  in my post on this subject  I'm just so used to calling tires spec tires as thats all I've ever run on! I'm not saying make it mandatory to run a spec tire My thought was to just keep it simple, As I said I am going to try running a hard compound tire everyone else can run with whatever they like I personally am not that interested in getting the most out of the car 

as much as I am in great close competition, and we've all seen how well that works in the 1600 club classes on spec tires 

As I understand the used tire market, it is not about resale of tires that are at or near the end of their usable life.  It is about the resale of tires whose new use was by race teams that get their tires for free or otherwise are in a position where they can replace tires very early in their life cycle.  With the exception of 2 fronts that were questionable (lots of rubber and evenly worn but looked and felt like they had more than one race day of heat cycles - free replacement by seller); we have been very satisfied with the condition of the used tires we have been getting.   For us this has been an economical and satisfactory solution.  Maybe things will change but for now we would like to keep doing what we've been doing. 

Sid Smith  

Let's not get the cart before the horse just yet.  FC still doesn't have the numbers, on a consistant basis, to start dividing the class.  I'm very interested in Andy's impressions of using the hard tire and seeing his performance before passing any judgement on what's best for the class.  In my case, it's probably more expensive to run a new "spec tire" (assuming I'd buy a complete set plus an additional one each for front & back) than to buy tires from John Berget or dumpster dive with Honeycutt (he still won't give away any of those double secret purple tread tires!!).  That, of course, is based on knowing I'm not going to be able to run a complete or even near complete schedule.  Were I in Andy's shoes, I'm sure I'd think differently.

We have talked in the past about an FC1 & FC2 based on suspension design but the lesson I think I've learned from the 1600/fPA groups is that a common tire is an equalizer to suspension evolution.  I assume that is one school of thought and we obviously have some history to back that up.  However, I still feel it's too early to subdivide the class.  If Andy is willing to use a prototype FC spec tire, then I think we should thank him, ask him to put the tire thru the ringer, and update us on his impressions of performance and durability.  And then discuss (ie, a year from now) the possibility of a spec tire class.

Hugs & kisses from where the sun sets,

                                                                          John Bachmann, FC#39

If I may throw my two cents in, first the question:

What are the different tires on all the Continentals running?

Hoosier and Goodyear, one or two compounds?  It not like theres a ton of options, John Berget sells tires with1-4 heat cycles, they have a lot more left, for 40% of new delivered to your door.  Unless your field of cars is large and with repeat racers I have to say John Bachman is spot on (sorry for the poor british comment Andy).  Let Andy find out what he can, don't split a small field, and let the guys use what they have, can find or afford.  If we're going to "Spec" something like a tire, have everything in place as well.  Once you say use XYZ tires, who's got em, how can the club help by buying in quantity and who's going to handle it.  I hope to run F/C someday, I hope I don't have to do all the things I'm about to do to a perfectly good FF race car to run a Spec Class when I get there, cause I will probably do something else, like fly fishing. Tires OK, but have a big field and some research first.

Bill

I really like Andy's plan and after Bachmanns post I understand better now.

I was concerned this was going to lead to rule implacation for 2011 and chase away possible entrants.

I only hope i'm in a seat in 2011 to observe 1st hand.

PS; It is Great to see so much excitement within the Club about the 2011 season before the 2010 Awards are even handed out.

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